Erin Davis: REALTORS Care®. You care about your clients, your business, and most importantly, your community. Since 2007, the Canadian Real Estate Association has been growing the national REALTORS Care® program to celebrate charitable achievements, advocacy, fundraising, and inspirational stories of REALTORS® using their collective impact to improve the world around them. I’m Erin Davis and welcome to REAL TIME, the podcast for REALTORS® brought to you by the Canadian Real Estate Association.
Erin: Today, we are joined by two nominees for the 2024 Canadian REALTORS Care® Award who have been beacons of hope in their communities, Ken Hammer and Cindi Loforti Lepp. They’re here with us to share their inspiring journeys. Welcome to both of you and we’re going to let you both tell us more about yourselves. We’re going to start with you, Ken.
Ken Hammer: Well, thanks Erin and hi, Cindi. First of all-
Cindi Loforti Lepp: Hi, good to see you again, Ken.
Ken: -it’s great to be a part of this. I think it’s really important. I’ll give you a brief background. I’ve been an academic for 33 years. I’ve also been a practitioner or an entrepreneur for the same amount of time, so I’ve always practiced as well as teaching. Became a REALTOR® in about eight and a half years ago. Proud to be a REALTOR® with the Scott Parker team and with RE/MAX in Nanaimo. Happy to be a part of this conversation.
Erin: We’re glad to have you here, Ken. Tell us, what did you teach? Because if it’s grammar, we’re going to be really, really careful.
Ken: Not grammar. That was probably one of my weaker areas, although it did improve. My field of expertise was called Recreation Administration and Tourism Management. Within that, a lot of my areas of interest were in the entrepreneurial realm. I taught an entrepreneurship course. I taught marketing. I taught leadership. It had a business kind of sense to it. It really fit with my entrepreneurial needs as well as my teaching needs.
Erin: Wonderful. Okay, Cindi, what about you?
Cindi: I’ve been a REALTOR® for a little over two and a half years. I’ve come late to the game compared to somebody like Ken. I’ve been involved with various not-for-profit organizations in our community for decades and very much enjoy it. I have been involved with Habitat for Humanity, the YWCA, Pathstone Children’s Mental Health, and Youth Without Secure Housing. I’ve had a lot of experience with being on boards and just dealing with those organizations and have enjoyed it immensely.
Erin: Good. What did it mean to you to be nominated for the 2024 REALTORS Care® Award? We’ll start with you, Cindi.
Cindi: Well, first and foremost, I was very surprised. I just say, shout out to CREA for even coming up with this concept. I think it’s so incredibly important that we highlight REALTORS® that are giving back to their community. I think it’s one occupation where you see that constantly, where REALTORS®, they have big hearts and are continually giving back to their community, being involved in various organizations and charities. I was very honored, really was, like I said, very surprised, but felt very privileged to be included in the Care Award.
Erin: How’d you find out about it?
Cindi: I got a phone call, and I think it was Allison. Allison called me and said, “This is what’s going on. You’ve been nominated and you’ve become one of the finalists.” It was absolutely thrilling. We had an amazing conversation. It was YWCA who actually nominated me and put a lot of time and effort into writing the review on what I had done in the community. Very thankful to them. Then excited to be involved in the filming and highlighting the charities and the organizations I’ve been involved with over the years. It was a wonderful experience.
Erin: Oh, that’s great. Good to hear. How about you, Ken? What did it mean for you to be nominated for the REALTORS Care® Award for 2024?
Ken: Again, like Cindi, it’s pretty exciting and honorable. I give my team a lot of credit for that, though. It started with our local brokerage nomination for– we have in our VIREB, Vancouver Island Real Estate Board, REALTORS Care® Award. I was shocked to get a message from my managing broker that they had nominated me. They didn’t tell me, so quite a surprise, which was neat.
Then the CREA Care Award, I hadn’t known that they’d put my name forward to that as well. A bit of a surprise, but just like Cindi, I think it’s an honor for not only my team in brokerage, but also the organizations we work with. To me, I saw that as a great opportunity. Now I can share some of the great work the community organizations are doing with a broader audience. That was the most exciting part for me.
Erin: How did you first get involved with the causes that you support today? You’ve both mentioned so many of them already. Why were they so important? We’ll start with you, Cindi.
Cindi: I come from a family where they’ve always given back in the community. I think I just followed their lead and went about finding organizations that would be the best fit for myself and started with Youth Without Secure Housing, that’s basically homeless youth, and worked with them. That snowballed into so many other organizations because once you get involved in that venue, you start to meet so many people, have great stories, and you hear about other causes. You’re invited. You’re invited to serve on boards. You’re invited to help-out with various projects.
I got involved with a regional group that was hand-pointed, that was for homeless youth and ended up serving alongside of wonderful people like Elizabeth Zimmerman, who is the executive director of the YWCA locally, and ended up serving on the board after getting to know her, and then got involved with the YW. I’m sure Ken would agree with me. When you get involved in those venues in our community, it just opens-up the door to you for so many other experiences that are so rewarding, and you get to know so many fabulous people.
Ken: I grew up in it. I had parents who were involved in the community since I can remember. My dad was a Lion for all his life, honored by being a Lion. That’s a service organization. My mother, the same thing. I come from a small community, so they were extremely involved. I didn’t know how it unfolded for me, but as the years went by through my early years as an academic, of course, I was involved in professional organizations and giving back to them and being engaged in them.
Again, throughout my life and career, as I started a new business, I went to one of the few people I know in my community I’m in now, Nanaimo, British Columbia. He was my REALTOR®, who happened to be my sister-in-law’s cousin. I asked him, I said, “Hey, Dave, I’m having some challenges getting connected in my community. I’ve got this new business and leadership and management development. What do you recommend? There’s so many organizations out there. It could have been BNI. It could have been the Executive Association, can be Toastmasters.”
He said, “Ken, if I was you, I’d get involved in Rotary.” He said, “Rotary is where the movers and shakers are in the community, and that’s where you’re going to meet people and doors will open for you.” Sure enough, it was true. I wear this little lapel pin here, which is a Rotarian pin. As I started wearing that pin and meeting some of the executives in the community, it gave me instant credibility. They just said, “Oh, Ken, you’re a Rotarian. That’s great. You’re in your community. Got to like that.”
I started with Rotary. As Cindi said, once you start with one organization, it just snowballs. That snowball effect through Rotary led me to many, many other organizations that we work with and serve in many different ways. Sometimes it’s just taking that first step, getting involved in a little way, and opportunities will just open-up. It’s unbelievable.
Cindi: I’m going to jump on that one because I’ve just been asked to join our local Rotary. Ken and I did it the other way around because I’ve been involved with many different organizations. Now, that has been a springboard to be involved now with Rotary. Ken, you’re saying that you actually got involved with Rotary, which became the springboard to getting involved with so many other organizations.
Ken: Congratulations, Cindi. That’s great news. Rotary will provide many more opportunities to serve, and I think that’s partly what it’s about for us, is just to serve our communities. This year it’s actually an interesting theme that Rotary has. Every year they have a different theme. This year the theme of Rotary is called The Magic of Rotary. I’ve been a Rotarian for pretty much 25 years, and I think the magic of Rotary has worked for me in many, many, different ways. Cindi, I’m excited for you just to see where it takes you because opportunities will present themselves like you can’t even imagine. I’d love to tell you about some of those but we’re on a different topic.
Cindi: I’m really excited about it so I’m glad you brought it up because just going to several of the meetings I see where their care is for their fellow man and the great things that they’ve done in the community so I’m really looking forward to jumping in.
Ken: It’s a little bit intimidating to jump in and we don’t know where to start. I think I would say one of the first steps in engaging in your community and giving back is just to start. When I got into Rotary, I jumped in not too fast but trying to learn about it because still, after 25 years, I’m learning what Rotary is and what they do but jumping in I would say is one of the number one things we can do in terms of serving our communities. Take a step.
Erin: That is absolutely true. We’re talking service groups, service clubs. There are myriad service clubs wherever anyone listening or watching lives but we’re also talking connection here which is so important. I love how everything weaves together here because, Cindi, here you are a REALTOR® and you’ve gotten involved in homes, homelessness and Habitat for Humanity. That’s been so important in your story as well. Tell us about that.
Cindi: It dovetails, doesn’t it, really with being a REALTOR®. I can’t say enough good things about Habitat for Humanity, what they do. I just want to say just to be perfectly clear about it, we do not give homes away. The individuals actually have to pay for their homes. They have to do 500 hours of sweat equity so that we are assured that they’re going to be able to have the energy and put the effort into taking care of their home whether that’s the landscaping or the maintenance of the home itself and then we hold the mortgage for them, and it is based basically on their household income.
What I love about Habitat is that, that household income includes any teenagers that are working so everybody has a part to play. What we see is that families become closer together. We see children’s marks go up, self-esteem go up. Habitat for Humanity, I think, has made such a difference in so many people’s lives. Here we’re so supported by the community. I’m just going to tell a little story if I may.
We had Centennial Homes come to us, local builder Dominic Delilah, and he said, “Listen, I want to build four homes for Habitat and just give you the keys.” It was really difficult to wrap our head around because that’s never happened before. We said, “Well, what do we have to do? How much do we have to give? Do we have to supply manpower?” He said, “No, I want to build these homes, and I just want to give you the keys.”
Of course, we were absolutely thrilled. What Dominic did, and I really hope that this serves as an example and that other people take what he has done and copy it, he went to his employees, and he said, “Look, I want to do this for Habitat. Can you donate your hours when you work on the Habitat homes?” He also went to suppliers and said, “This is what I want to do. How can you assist us?” By doing that he involved so many other people in the community and then at the end he gave us the keys for four homes to serve four families. Just a wonderful example of what one individual can do with serving our community by serving an organization and really sacrificing.
Erin: Tell me what that looked like when those families got those keys, Cindi. Can you picture or describe what it was like for those lives to change before your eyes?
Cindi: When you have the presenting of the keys ceremony at Habitat there is not a dry eye in the entire place because these families speak. You really hear what it means to them and how much it changes their life before they even move into the house. Just to see the ripple effect that happens because you have to understand, some of those individuals who are children have become doctors, dentists, it’s just amazing to see how their self-esteem changes, their confidence. They become so much more confident in who they are and what they can accomplish in life. Carl Ryan, who has been so instrumental in Habitat for Humanity in Niagara, he says, “If you don’t shed a tear at a key ceremony for Habitat, you’ll have to check to make sure you got a pulse.”
Erin: Exactly. I’m sure, Ken, you’ve been part of moments like that as well. It’s so incredible to be such a small part of a big change. That’s part of what REALTORS Care® is all about as well.
Ken: Yes, I have to agree with you, Erin. Personally, it’s very emotional and rewarding, but I think it’s beyond that. It’s not just for me. It’s for the families, as Cindi is talking about. It’s for her community. I want to make a connection with what Cindi’s saying, because if a REALTOR®’s out there listening and wanting to find a reason to get engaged in their community, I think Cindi has number one, and that she’s learning about her community. She’s involved with a developer. She’s involved with building homes. Hey, we’re in real estate. Here Cindi’s doing it just out of a love of service and gaining all this professional knowledge. That’s a win-win for me.
Erin: Absolutely. It’s all about the connections to the community, connections with each other, and connections of the heart. It’s really, really heartwarming to hear both of your stories.
Okay. Ken, you’ve talked about Rotary, you’ve talked about myriad other things that you support. What drew you to these causes? You’ve talked also about the snowball effect. Let’s expand on that a little bit, because it doesn’t just happen all at once, does it? You don’t just magically don the pin and all the doors open.
Ken: No.
Erin: Tell us a little bit more about that, would you?
Ken: Well, again, I think it is a snowball effect. I get introduced to different organizations in the community. I hear about their various needs. I try to move towards what interests me and where I’m moving towards, for example, children, youth, very, very important for all of us. That’s something within me that I want to support. A good example of that is an organization called Nanaimo Youth Services Association. What they do is provide educational job readiness training, jobs, and housing for youth that are struggling. Youth homelessness is a big issue in our community.
Again, if anybody’s interested in getting involved, you don’t have to join an organization, you don’t have to be a board member, you can simply participate in one of their events. A good example is, for a couple of years, myself and my team have gotten involved in their Roughing It event, which is basically going out and staying and sleeping on cardboard, on concrete, experience what it means to be homeless.
Anybody can do one little thing, just participate in one fundraising event. That is very, very useful. Again, my interest, as well, is just I see my community needs and I connect them, and all of a sudden, I’m engaged or involved in some way.
Erin: I think it’s important, too, what you’re saying, Ken, and Cindi, I’m sure you’ll be able to echo this, that you can try on different organizations.
Cindi: That’s right.
Erin: One size doesn’t fit all. The meeting time may not really be for your schedule or for your life. If you just go and volunteer and show up at one of these events and say, “Yes, I really like these people, I like what they’re doing,” it becomes so much more fun. Honestly, volunteering should be something that feels easy to do that it doesn’t feel like something that’s an obligation. It’s a joy. I hear you agreeing with this, Cindi.
Cindi: Yes, absolutely. I want to just, too, focus on REALTORS® and how they help. I look at our own brokerage, McGarr and Revel. I just think of all of the activities that these REALTORS® do to benefit the community, whether it’s community care or Humane Society. The Revel Gala raises a lot of money each year and they donated it this year to the Ronald McDonald House. REALTORS® seem to be a group that just really understand the need to give back to our community. The homeless component, like I said earlier, just seems to dovetail so well. It’s encouraging to be in Ontario and hear Ken, who’s in BC, share very similar stories to mine or experiences that really mirror my experience when it comes to REALTORS® giving back and being involved in the community. That, for me, is incredibly encouraging.
Ken: I agree with what Cindi’s saying in terms of, “It’s just not me.” I think a lot of the public don’t know how REALTORS® are caring in their community. I think this award is a way to let the public know. When I received my award, of course, it was publicized in the local paper and I had people reaching out to me saying, “Hey, congratulations, Ken, that’s neat.” I’m not the only REALTOR®. There’s many opportunities for those REALTORS® that are looking to get involved in the community.
As Erin, you said earlier on, it’s not one size fits all, you just try it out, see what sticks with you. I’ve mentioned that you can just participate in a fundraising event, you can go to one of their annual general meetings, you can have a coffee with the CEO of the organization and just learn about them. Of course, you can always give money, don’t get me wrong, everybody needs a check. There’s many other ways to get engaged as we’re talking about here today.
Cindi: I’m just going to jump in here. I always say, we’ve got all kinds of qualities that we can give. I always say either you can give your time, your treasures, or your talent. All of them mean something. There’s some people who can give money because they don’t have time. They probably have a lot of talents, but they’d rather give money. Then there’s other individuals who really just want to give their time and that works for them.
I’m just going to say, to all of the board members who serve and volunteer on boards, who give their time, and I’m sure talents are in there too. You have to find out what works best for you. What is it that you want to give, and that you feel you’re most fulfilled in giving? Ken, you said when we talked earlier, that you get fulfilled by giving. Scientifically, it’s been shown to take your stress levels down, make you a happier person. Those of us who give to the community, we’re winning across the board.
Ken: Nicely said, Cindi, because if you go into some of the theories, and you can look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you can look at a lot of the other models of happiness, guess what’s at the top? It’s service. Providing service is one of those higher level expressions of happiness, higher level expressions of being human. I get more than I give, there’s no question. By giving a little bit, I gain big time. If you’re wondering about getting involved, you’ll benefit in terms of quality of life, your community benefits. It’s a win-win.
Erin: It is. As a matter of fact, in our previous episode to this, on our podcast, on REAL TIME, Melissa Leung talked about this, that there was an experiment at UBC, where they gave everybody something like $10,000. The ones who gave it actually felt more happiness, more joy, and it sustained them longer too. It all ties in just so beautifully.
Now, you’ve both been involved in different ways in youth, Ken, you through Rotary, you as well, Cindi, finding homes, especially for the homeless, and for women, for shelters, and that sort of thing. You call it multiplying leaders. Let’s expand on that a bit and looking toward tomorrow’s community leaders to, one day, if not fill your shoes and walk alongside you, Cindi.
Cindi: I think one of the best acts any of us can do is to mentor others to care and have compassion for our fellow man. It’s like, that should be the school, the school of love and care and compassion. You can encourage other people to do their part and to give of themself. It doesn’t have to be big. It can be very small. If all of us did that in our community, just imagine the community and societies we would live in. It would be extraordinary. There’s so many individuals that do mentor people and lead as examples, and we just need to pay attention and be willing to give of ourselves so that we can be a reflection of them and perhaps then be a mentor and an example for other people in our community or people in our circles.
Erin: How about you, Ken? Are you seeing more youth getting involved in service clubs and that sort of thing? Are you planting the seeds for a tree under which whose shade you never hope to sit, but that one day they too will be the tree?
Ken: It’s so important and I do see it happening maybe not as much as it can or should. I’m involved in a couple of organizations that are planting seeds. One’s the Child Development Center here in Nanaimo. I’ve been working with them in a variety of capacities for a number of years and they provide opportunities for youth that are struggling with some disability of some kind, and helping level the playing field for them and their families.
In Rotary, of course, there’s many youth programs. We have one where we train youth leaders in age 12 to 17. Those are the kids that are going to come up and lead others. In Rotary, we have Rotaract, which is a university age Rotary club. They’re developing themselves and serving their communities in many different ways. We do need to be building the future here today, and it’s through youth. There’s no question.
Another way I would say is quite a few years ago, we built a community leadership program. Right now it’s called Leadership Vancouver Island. That’s a nine-month program where you apply to be part of this program, you’re learning to be a leader within your community, whether it’s your business or local organization. The idea is that you will take your leadership then and multiply your organization by being more effective.
When we first started the program, we were saying, “Well, what’s better? Write a check to the organization for maybe buying some equipment or training one of their staff members to be able to go out and get 10 checks for 10 pieces of equipment?” That idea of building for the future is so important here.
Cindi: I love that answer, Ken. I’m going to talk a little bit about changing lives because you did refer to that. I look at organizations like the YWCA where they take women and children and they mentor them, they give them life skills programs where their lives are changed. Personally, and I know, Ken, you said the same thing, I’m more about organizations where you give a hand-up, not so much a handout, although I feel that organizations that give a handout are very, very important in our community and needed and definitely serve a very real and necessary purpose.
The YWCA, because they have so many life skill programs and because they end up changing lives of women and children, I get so excited about what they do. It’s about multiplying what you’re doing, but it’s about changing the lives of other people in your community where they end up being on their own, they don’t need as much assistance as they were getting and feeling just great about themselves. Of course, children reflect mothers. I always say healthy mothers raise healthy children. If we want healthy children, let’s help our mothers be healthy.
Erin: Agreed. To both of you, what value do you see in bringing one of your charitable initiatives under the REALTORS Care® umbrella to help bring in resources from your board association and CREA? We’ll start with you, Ken.
Ken: Well, that’s a great question because I think it’s the most important thing we’re doing here with that award, is being able to recognize some of these organizations that I’m a small part of, but they’re a big part of the community. Even just the awareness that they get through the award is very important. In some cases, I think I haven’t maximized that awareness that they’ve received through this award, and I’d like to find ways to be able to do it. My local award, I did receive a small amount of funds that I could give to one of my charities, which is a great thing to do. I think they get awareness, and I think REALTORS® get more awareness, and we win by this because what the public sees is REALTORS® that do care about their community. It isn’t about just selling a home. We care about our community. I think that, Erin, is maybe the most important thing about the award, is that community organizations are recognized for the work they do.
Let me just finish up by saying, when I ask around, sometimes it feels overwhelming, we see homelessness. We feel families that are struggling. We see an addiction problem. We just put our hands up in the air and go, “Oh my goodness, what can I do?” I asked that question, one of the fellows I met through, again, my connection with the Nanaimo Youth Services Association, well, actually it was through Rotary. He was a keynote speaker. I hate to bring Rotary up all the time.
His name was Joe Roberts, and he goes by the moniker Skid Row CEO. He’s got a very compelling story about his growing up and not having that love and care and not having a community that supported him. He ended up on East Vancouver. He’s from Ontario. He had a growing up story that was like all of us, and that’s, things are going well, and then one little thing changed. His father passed away. From that, he got involved in some abusive situations with his mother’s boyfriend or something like that.
I asked him, “Joe, what can we do? What can I do? I’m just overwhelmed with these issues, social issues.” He said, “Ken, the one thing we can do is get involved in the organizations that are doing the work.” That has stayed with me. I think, Cindi, you’re doing it.
If we’d encourage more REALTORS® to think that way, you don’t have to solve homelessness, but take part in an event every year. February, it’s called Coldest Night of the Year. Locally, it’s run by our central Vancouver Island Crisis Care Society. They run this every year. My team goes out now every year. It’s just participating in that, raising a little bit of funds, but raising awareness amongst the community that, “Hey, there’s some challenges in our community. If we could just all come out, spend $100 or whatever you can raise, you’re going to make a difference.” Again, one little step.
Cindi: Well said. Well said, Ken. For REALTORS®, I really believe that they get involved in the community because they care about people. To choose the career of a REALTOR® is usually because you care about others, and then it reflects to helping in the community. That was one of, certainly, the points of getting this award, was that we were able to film Habitat for Humanity and the YWCA, talk about Pathstones and highlight those wonderful organizations in my personal community where people are making a difference and are just giving of themselves and changing the lives of others. Out of the cold, very active here in our community too. What a great suggestion, Ken.
Erin: So many good ideas, so many great suggestions, but there’s got to be somebody who’s listening or watching right now who says, “How do I fit this into my crazy busy life? I don’t have time to commit hours and hours a week.” I always remember a sign in a gym I saw that said, “You always have time for the things you put first.” What is your example? What’s your suggestion to anybody who’s sitting on the fence going, “Oh, I don’t know if I’m ready to commit to all of this”? What do you say, Ken?
Ken: I say, Erin, you had a good answer. If anybody’s listening, and they say, “Well, I don’t have the time, I’m too busy,” I get a little irritated when people tell me that because you nailed it in terms of, you can fit whatever you need to fit in, in your world.
By giving a little bit, it’s not extra. It is not extra. In my own life, I am engaged, involved in the community. I’m an active REALTOR®. It’s just part of who I am, and it could be part of who you are. It’s not a big step. It is really just maybe an hour a month, for goodness sakes, or participate in one event. Not only is it just good for your own soul, but it’s good for business. We haven’t even really talked about that.
Cindi has so many neat contacts in her community just by her volunteer work. I think half of my business comes from my community connections. If you’re out there saying, “Well, I can’t do it, I can’t do it, because I’m so busy with my clients,” well, you’re missing out. You’re missing out big time. This whole notion of caring about your community is important for you personally, but it’s important for your business, and most importantly, it’s important for the community, because if we don’t have a healthy community, who’s going to want to live here? Who’s going to want to buy the houses?
Erin: Okay. Cindi, what about you? What do you say?
Cindi: I say that busy people get things done. We need you. If you’re busy, we really need you because you’ll probably make such an impact. Just start out with baby steps. Once you find out how absolutely fulfilling it is, I’m sure that you will end up jumping in with both feet. It’s that whole beginning stage. Just, start out slowly, and you’ll get sucked into the vortex, just like Ken and I did.
Erin: It’s a good vortex. It’s a great vortex.
Cindi: It’s a great vortex.
Erin: Wonderful. I can think of no better way, no better note on which to wrap this up today than with that message of joy and hope, giving and volunteering and just, baby steps. That’s all it takes.
Cindi: Baby steps.
Erin: Absolutely. Thank you both so much for being part of this conversation. Congratulations to you both. May the next year bring even greater things for you, for us all. Thank you.
Cindi: Thank you, Erin. Ken, what a pleasure to get to know you.
Ken: You too, Cindi. Thanks, Erin.
Cindi: When I’m in Vancouver Island, I’m looking you up just so you know.
Ken: Sounds good.
Cindi: We’re going to have lunch.
Ken: Okay. Sounds good. We can compare notes.
Erin: He’s in Nanaimo. I’m in Victoria. You’ve got lunch either place, Cindi.
Cindi: I’ll look you up, too, Erin.
Erin: Okay, hon.
Cindi: I’m in Niagara Lake, so listen.
Erin: Oh, man.
Cindi: Come see me.
Erin: Yes, right after the Shaw Festival. Promise.
Cindi: Okay, good. Sounds good. A pleasure. Thank you so much.
Ken: Thanks, Erin.
Erin: Thank you. Wow, it’s hard not to be motivated after a conversation like that. If you’re looking to get involved, just ask somebody like Cindi or Ken in your community or reach out to your local board or association to find out if they’re organizing a REALTORS Care® Day near you. With that, we are wrapping up REAL TIME for 2024.
REAL TIME is a production of Alphabet® Creative with technical support from Rob Whitehead, from me, Erin Davis, and from the bottom of my heart, from all of us, thank you for another great year full of incredible guests and fascinating discussions. There is so much more to come in 2025, so we hope you’ll stay tuned for what’s next. In the meantime, if you’re just discovering our show, yay, take a listen to some of our past episodes.
Finally, to you, our listener and viewer, our deepest gratitude and wishes for all the best in the new year.
